Outrageous dealer prices currently

[ModernDay4Runner]

Like ^^ said, I think it's a trim level thing. Premium trims seem to be getting reserved.

Yeah, maybe that is the major distinction or factor that determines how quickly allocated vehicles get reserved. On this forum, it seems most respondents to this poll would prefer the Premium trims since the can enjoy all the creature comforts on paved roads and still be able to do light trails. A relatively small number of people plan to go off-roading. I think an even bigger majority of 4Runner owners who do not frequent this forum will be less likely to be the off-roading type.

 

[dirtwheeler]

Seems like all the dealerships around here do put sale pending. These dealers all have at least some marked as sale pending so I doubt they leave it off some that are reserved. Also thought all those systems were fed data from Toyota and not managed at the dealer level so when they make statuses it also feeds the Toyota site. Could be wrong though.

The dealerships seem to handle this in different ways. I originally had a 4Runner reserved at one dealership that was never marked as sale pending (just said "on delivery" or something like that). I inquired about availability at closer dealership and they reserved me one that was closer to what I wanted in options, and that 4Runner doesn't even show up on their website (I can only see info about it from the spec sheet link sent to me by the salesman). It makes me wonder how many 4Runners get sold that were never advertised in inventory at toyota.com or the dealership websites (makes it worth calling and asking).

I don't know if reserving a vehicle (especially without a deposit) would really mean a sale is "pending" (semantics). It's more of an informal "gentleman's agreement" IMO. This is one of the things that makes me not 100% certain of my reservation as a buyer. There is no contract in place and nothing legally that stops the dealership from selling to someone else. At the same time, they take the risk of me changing my mind (in reality, I believe there's not much risk to the dealership since these 2025 4Runners appear to be in big demand right now). I think the main thing that keeps them from turning reservations into an auction is their reputation, but I'm kind of surprised they don't do this (reserve the vehicle to the customer with the highest offer).

Luckily the dealership I have my 4Runner reserved at doesn't have markups above SRP (and didn't even ask for a deposit, like the first reservation required). I do see the "normal" D&H stuff (around $1,400 I think) and some options I wouldn't have chosen, but that's a different issue. In any case, I plan to write up my buying experience with the dealerships I've worked with, good or bad (just honest facts). I think it's helpful to have this kind of info out there. If/when I have an exceptionally bad experience at a dealership, I reach out to them first. This happened with the last truck I purchased, but the dealership eventually tried to fix the situation. Once they get to a certain size, I think these dealerships realize that the bigger market influences their success or failure more than anything else, however having a good reputation becomes more important when sales are low and it becomes more of a buyer's market (which it isn't right now with 4Runners, but they know that can change).

 

[Nodak]

i have to agree. i know when my dealer was selling the nickle and dime method, i crossed shopped with the dealer in bismarck a lot and bought some from them cause i could get a better deal from them. ever since they went to this sell by volume and make money off toyota quota metrics, i have bought from them exclusively (except one time when the bismarck dealer offered the same invoice price but gave me 3k more in trade in on our 16 tacoma for a 18 tundra, but that sales manager didnt last long and replaced with someone more inline with dealer practices now, lost too many sales to other dealers for low balling trade ins)

i really cant beat them for giving me invoice now and let me pick and choose what options i want. i just have to be patient for the allocation reserve request to be fulfill.

luckily i dont pick wild oddball combo's so its easier for toyota to fulfill the request.

 

[toyomoLC]

The “Outrageous dealer pricing currently” topic was originally my reply to another post about someone paying $75K for a Gen 6 4Runner. I saw on the sidebar on this forum that a moderator decided that this reply should be its own separate thread topic and retitled it.

I think the responses have uncovered that the 6Gen staff may be Toyota insiders -marketers or some of the parasitic ‘influencers’ I cited. Many of them make a living out of making videos about installing accessories and parts they get for free from suppliers and manufacturers. To each his own in a capitalistic society - I applaud them - but these people are not the typical Toyota buyer or user. They’re outliers as reflected in the nonsensical option combos most of us don’t want and are being forced fed.

Still think that the Toyota USA SUV/truck marketing team and its lead were unduly influenced by the ‘youtuber influencer’ & ‘overland expo’ gang. They have over-segmented the 4Runner Gen6/LC offerings and they are testing the Nash equilibrium with their overinflated pricing. That sales volume curve drops fairly steeply once the inelastic unit price point is exceeded. They’re close.

The dealers are not helping with useless tack-on accessory profit-driven pricing models and ‘market adjustments’. The problem may be worse in SET, but it’s not limited to my local market or to a single dealer. Not all dealers do it but enough do thate they smear the rest. One dealer in an adjoining state tried to charge me for a 2nd key fob for a TRD ORP 4Runner.

Obviously Toyota’s scheme of trickling the supply slowly is markedly distorting the market. They’ve always constrained supply to drive residual value and maintain inflated new truck pricing.

In the end, Toyota’s reputation is shattered, from my perspective, and they’ve decided to cater to the relatively few ‘internet Toyota influencers’ who make a living out of mods on their trucks by getting freebies from the suppliers, installers and Toyota aftermarket producers.

A pretty sleazy situation for an old line Japanese company that had spent so much of its storied history defending ‘human dignity’ through Lean/TPS innovation and quality. This new approach, at least in the USA, belies all that rhetoric as BS and a devout commitment to profit over quality.

Toyota seems to have lost its way.

Akio Toyoda-Sama, would you consider that the time has come for you to intervene in the USA market to correct the questionable dealer/distributor practices and misguided marketing strategy that are dishonoring Toyota’s reputation? Given the Toyoda family’s commitments to its loyal brand customer base, your leadership action now, to allow your customer’s who work hard to continue to afford your truck products, is the honorable course.

 

[brumey]

The “Outrageous dealer pricing currently” topic was originally my reply to another post about someone paying $75K for a Gen 6 4Runner. I saw on the sidebar on this forum that a moderator decided that this reply should be its own separate thread topic and retitled it.

I think the responses have uncovered that the 6Gen staff may be Toyota insiders -marketers or some of the parasitic ‘influencers’ I cited. Many of them make a living out of making videos about installing accessories and parts they get for free from suppliers and manufacturers. To each his own in a capitalistic society - I applaud them - but these people are not the typical Toyota buyer or user. They’re outliers as reflected in the nonsensical option combos most of us don’t want and are being forced fed.

Still think that the Toyota USA SUV/truck marketing team and its lead were unduly influenced by the ‘youtuber influencer’ & ‘overland expo’ gang. They have over-segmented the 4Runner Gen6/LC offerings and they are testing the Nash equilibrium with their overinflated pricing. That sales volume curve drops fairly steeply once the inelastic unit price point is exceeded. They’re close.

The dealers are not helping with useless tack-on accessory profit-driven pricing models and ‘market adjustments’. The problem may be worse in SET, but it’s not limited to my local market or to a single dealer. Not all dealers do it but enough do thate they smear the rest. One dealer in an adjoining state tried to charge me for a 2nd key fob for a TRD ORP 4Runner.

Obviously Toyota’s scheme of trickling the supply slowly is markedly distorting the market. They’ve always constrained supply to drive residual value and maintain inflated new truck pricing.

In the end, Toyota’s reputation is shattered, from my perspective, and they’ve decided to cater to the relatively few ‘internet Toyota influencers’ who make a living out of mods on their trucks by getting freebies from the suppliers, installers and Toyota aftermarket producers.

A pretty sleazy situation for an old line Japanese company that had spent so much of its storied history defending ‘human dignity’ through Lean/TPS innovation and quality. This new approach, at least in the USA, belies all that rhetoric as BS and a devout commitment to profit over quality.

Toyota seems to have lost its way.

Akio Toyoda-Sama, would you consider that the time has come for you to intervene in the USA market to correct the questionable dealer/distributor practices and misguided marketing strategy that are dishonoring Toyota’s reputation? Given the Toyoda family’s commitments to its loyal brand customer base, your leadership action now, to allow your customer’s who work hard to continue to afford your truck products, is the honorable course.

Well said and I 100% agree.

SR5 due here in 3 weeks. If I get a hint of dealership BS, I am out. This is from a first time Toyota buyer.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

The “Outrageous dealer pricing currently” topic was originally my reply to another post about someone paying $75K for a Gen 6 4Runner. I saw on the sidebar on this forum that a moderator decided that this reply should be its own separate thread topic and retitled it.

I think the responses have uncovered that the 6Gen staff may be Toyota insiders -marketers or some of the parasitic ‘influencers’ I cited. Many of them make a living out of making videos about installing accessories and parts they get for free from suppliers and manufacturers. To each his own in a capitalistic society - I applaud them - but these people are not the typical Toyota buyer or user. They’re outliers as reflected in the nonsensical option combos most of us don’t want and are being forced fed.

Still think that the Toyota USA SUV/truck marketing team and its lead were unduly influenced by the ‘youtuber influencer’ & ‘overland expo’ gang. They have over-segmented the 4Runner Gen6/LC offerings and they are testing the Nash equilibrium with their overinflated pricing. That sales volume curve drops fairly steeply once the inelastic unit price point is exceeded. They’re close.

The dealers are not helping with useless tack-on accessory profit-driven pricing models and ‘market adjustments’. The problem may be worse in SET, but it’s not limited to my local market or to a single dealer. Not all dealers do it but enough do thate they smear the rest. One dealer in an adjoining state tried to charge me for a 2nd key fob for a TRD ORP 4Runner.

Obviously Toyota’s scheme of trickling the supply slowly is markedly distorting the market. They’ve always constrained supply to drive residual value and maintain inflated new truck pricing.

In the end, Toyota’s reputation is shattered, from my perspective, and they’ve decided to cater to the relatively few ‘internet Toyota influencers’ who make a living out of mods on their trucks by getting freebies from the suppliers, installers and Toyota aftermarket producers.

A pretty sleazy situation for an old line Japanese company that had spent so much of its storied history defending ‘human dignity’ through Lean/TPS innovation and quality. This new approach, at least in the USA, belies all that rhetoric as BS and a devout commitment to profit over quality.

Toyota seems to have lost its way.

Akio Toyoda-Sama, would you consider that the time has come for you to intervene in the USA market to correct the questionable dealer/distributor practices and misguided marketing strategy that are dishonoring Toyota’s reputation? Given the Toyoda family’s commitments to its loyal brand customer base, your leadership action now, to allow your customer’s who work hard to continue to afford your truck products, is the honorable course.

I think I would have to say I disagree with most of this. I was not an economics major but it seems to me this is typical supply and demand. There are no influencers on this forum that's forcing me to buy a 4Runner for x number of dollars. I am in complete control of my money. If I wanted to potentially save a few thousand dollars and wait a year I would do that. But I don't want to do that. So I'm deciding to buy my new 4Runner at MSRP now. Maybe I'm just not as smart as everybody else. I do know that nobody is forcing me to buy a new 4Runner or any aftermarket gizmos.

 

[nubbins_]

The “Outrageous dealer pricing currently” topic was originally my reply to another post about someone paying $75K for a Gen 6 4Runner. I saw on the sidebar on this forum that a moderator decided that this reply should be its own separate thread topic and retitled it.

I think the responses have uncovered that the 6Gen staff may be Toyota insiders -marketers or some of the parasitic ‘influencers’ I cited. Many of them make a living out of making videos about installing accessories and parts they get for free from suppliers and manufacturers. To each his own in a capitalistic society - I applaud them - but these people are not the typical Toyota buyer or user. They’re outliers as reflected in the nonsensical option combos most of us don’t want and are being forced fed.

Still think that the Toyota USA SUV/truck marketing team and its lead were unduly influenced by the ‘youtuber influencer’ & ‘overland expo’ gang. They have over-segmented the 4Runner Gen6/LC offerings and they are testing the Nash equilibrium with their overinflated pricing. That sales volume curve drops fairly steeply once the inelastic unit price point is exceeded. They’re close.

The dealers are not helping with useless tack-on accessory profit-driven pricing models and ‘market adjustments’. The problem may be worse in SET, but it’s not limited to my local market or to a single dealer. Not all dealers do it but enough do thate they smear the rest. One dealer in an adjoining state tried to charge me for a 2nd key fob for a TRD ORP 4Runner.

Obviously Toyota’s scheme of trickling the supply slowly is markedly distorting the market. They’ve always constrained supply to drive residual value and maintain inflated new truck pricing.

In the end, Toyota’s reputation is shattered, from my perspective, and they’ve decided to cater to the relatively few ‘internet Toyota influencers’ who make a living out of mods on their trucks by getting freebies from the suppliers, installers and Toyota aftermarket producers.

A pretty sleazy situation for an old line Japanese company that had spent so much of its storied history defending ‘human dignity’ through Lean/TPS innovation and quality. This new approach, at least in the USA, belies all that rhetoric as BS and a devout commitment to profit over quality.

Toyota seems to have lost its way.

Akio Toyoda-Sama, would you consider that the time has come for you to intervene in the USA market to correct the questionable dealer/distributor practices and misguided marketing strategy that are dishonoring Toyota’s reputation? Given the Toyoda family’s commitments to its loyal brand customer base, your leadership action now, to allow your customer’s who work hard to continue to afford your truck products, is the honorable course.

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, but I really don't understand people who waited until now to doompost about Toyota. The Toyota reputation isn't new; about 8 years ago I walked into a Toyota dealer to inquire about a used and a new 3rd gen Tacoma. When we started talking about price, he whipped out a newspaper clipping about Toyota's resale value. I walked out and got into a Canyon instead. Of course no one likes an arrogant dealership, but your experience doesn't automatically indicate that Toyota USA is falling apart at the seams.

But I will say, up here in Canada we don't get much choice at all (and there are tax/registration related limitations about shopping cross-provincial) when it comes to dealerships so all aspects of dealership experience are pretty much automatically worse than in the US. I drive a Tesla currently (watching the 6gen scene from the sidelines for a few months before I decide) - a lot of things suck with this company, but one of the few that don't is the complete removal of the dealership experience. Gets so much of the sales trash out of the way.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, but I really don't understand people who waited until now to doompost about Toyota. The Toyota reputation isn't new; about 8 years ago I walked into a Toyota dealer to inquire about a used and a new 3rd gen Tacoma. When we started talking about price, he whipped out a newspaper clipping about Toyota's resale value. I walked out and got into a Canyon instead. Of course no one likes an arrogant dealership, but your experience doesn't automatically indicate that Toyota USA is falling apart at the seams.

But I will say, up here in Canada we don't get much choice at all (and there are tax/registration related limitations about shopping cross-provincial) when it comes to dealerships so all aspects of dealership experience are pretty much automatically worse than in the US. I drive a Tesla currently (watching the 6gen scene from the sidelines for a few months before I decide) - a lot of things suck with this company, but one of the few that don't is the complete removal of the dealership experience. Gets so much of the sales trash out of the way.

I am guessing there was something else about the salesman that gave off the "arrogant dealership" vibe you are describing. If I were working at a Toyota dealership, I too would be sure to point out how well Toyota's hold their value. That is an excellent selling point and it happens to be true. I don't understand why you would have an issue with that. You went to the Toyota dealership to inquire about a used Tacoma probably because you knew they had a reputation for being well made and holding their value. Well, I shouldn't assume that.

Used cars that hold their value generally sell for more than used cars that do not hold their value as well, right? Was it the price of the vehicle that made you think the dealership was being arrogant?






Results of a quick Google Search:
When comparing resale value, a Toyota Tacoma generally holds its value significantly better than a GMC Canyon, meaning a Tacoma will typically have a higher resale value compared to a Canyon of the same age and mileage; this is largely due to the Tacoma's reputation for exceptional reliability and off-road capability, making it highly sought after in the used market.

Key points to remember:

• Tacoma holds value better:
  According to most car valuation platforms, a Toyota Tacoma depreciates at a slower rate than a GMC Canyon, resulting in a higher resale value.
  
  
• Reputation for durability:
  The Tacoma is widely known for its ruggedness and ability to handle tough conditions, which contributes to its strong resale value.
  
  
• Canyon may offer more luxury features:
  While the Canyon might have a more luxurious interior and driving experience, this doesn't always translate to a higher resale value compared to the Tacoma.

 

[Nodak]

resale is heavily influence by how much off msrp the big 3 give constantly. i mean when you can buy a 90k truck and everyone expects 10-15k off right off the bat, that heavily influences resale.

toyota's typically dont have a discount and if they do, its mostly 1000-1500 max. this helps resale and trade in / dealer resale for trade ins to keep a higher used price cost.

that huge discount is factored in after depreciation of new vehicles

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

resale is heavily influence by how much off msrp the big 3 give constantly. i mean when you can buy a 90k truck and everyone expects 10-15k off right off the bat, that heavily influences resale.

toyota's typically dont have a discount and if they do, its mostly 1000-1500 max. this helps resale and trade in / dealer resale for trade ins to keep a higher used price cost.

that huge discount is factored in after depreciation of new vehicles

You are muddying the waters. Regardless of why resale values are what they are, I am trying to understand if that alone is what made this person think the dealership was being arrogant.

 

[Nodak]

You are muddying the waters. Regardless of why resale values are what they are, I am trying to understand if that alone is what made this person think the dealership was being arrogant.

um i am confused now. you 2nd half of your post was talking about resale, i just posted in regards to that part of your post.

 

[ModernDay4Runner]

You obviously can chime in on any thread you want to, so don't mind me, but.......

The poster was saying the dealership was arrogant when showing a newspaper clipping about Toyota's resale value. I was trying to find out why he/she thought that was arrogant. It's seems like a logical thing for a Toyota salesperson to mention. Maybe the salesperson had big fancy rings on every finger on both hands, a handlebar mustache, and wore a beret and that made him a bit arrogant. IDK.

Mr. AI on the internet says the higher Tacoma resale value IS largely due to the exceptional reliability and the off-road capabilities. You are giving a totally different reason and again, is just muddying the waters and is irrelevant to my question, but again, you are free to chime in as you want but it would be nice to give the poster a chance to answer the question if he/she wants to.


"Tacoma will typically have a higher resale value compared to a Canyon of the same age and mileage; this is largely due to the Tacoma's reputation for exceptional reliability and off-road capability."

 

[nubbins_]

I am guessing there was something else about the salesman that gave off the "arrogant dealership" vibe you are describing. If I were working at a Toyota dealership, I too would be sure to point out how well Toyota's hold their value. That is an excellent selling point and it happens to be true. I don't understand why you would have an issue with that. You went to the Toyota dealership to inquire about a used Tacoma probably because you knew they had a reputation for being well made and holding their value. Well, I shouldn't assume that.

Used cars that hold their value generally sell for more than used cars that do not hold their value as well, right? Was it the price of the vehicle that made you think the dealership was being arrogant?

Results of a quick Google Search:
When comparing resale value, a Toyota Tacoma generally holds its value significantly better than a GMC Canyon, meaning a Tacoma will typically have a higher resale value compared to a Canyon of the same age and mileage; this is largely due to the Tacoma's reputation for exceptional reliability and off-road capability, making it highly sought after in the used market.

Key points to remember:

• Tacoma holds value better:
  According to most car valuation platforms, a Toyota Tacoma depreciates at a slower rate than a GMC Canyon, resulting in a higher resale value.
  
  
• Reputation for durability:
  The Tacoma is widely known for its ruggedness and ability to handle tough conditions, which contributes to its strong resale value.
  
  
• Canyon may offer more luxury features:
  While the Canyon might have a more luxurious interior and driving experience, this doesn't always translate to a higher resale value compared to the Tacoma.

This was 8 years ago with 3rd gen Taco and 2nd gen GM, that pricing situation was a bit different and basically flipped compared to the chatGPT results above.

No, it was that the newspaper clipping encompassed the entire selling experience for both the used and new 3rd gen. They were nowhere close to Toyota MSRP and refused to budge on their markup for the new one, and the old one was also marked up well above market value and way too close to the new one for the amount of miles it had (coming up on powertrain warranty mileage). The Big 3 are known for their discounts but not on midsizers - they've never really offered great incentives and don't budge much if at all on not-fullsize trucks in Canada.

Anyways, in retrospect, that dealer can be dismissed as one of the bad ones. I just found the quoted post a bit amusing. It seems that most people crying foul about how Toyota lost its way with 6th gen pricing never paid attention to just how egregious 5th gen pricing became in its post-COVID years.

 

[Dead Horse]

The “Outrageous dealer pricing currently” topic was originally my reply to another post about someone paying $75K for a Gen 6 4Runner. I saw on the sidebar on this forum that a moderator decided that this reply should be its own separate thread topic and retitled it.

I think the responses have uncovered that the 6Gen staff may be Toyota insiders -marketers or some of the parasitic ‘influencers’ I cited. Many of them make a living out of making videos about installing accessories and parts they get for free from suppliers and manufacturers. To each his own in a capitalistic society - I applaud them - but these people are not the typical Toyota buyer or user. They’re outliers as reflected in the nonsensical option combos most of us don’t want and are being forced fed.

Still think that the Toyota USA SUV/truck marketing team and its lead were unduly influenced by the ‘youtuber influencer’ & ‘overland expo’ gang. They have over-segmented the 4Runner Gen6/LC offerings and they are testing the Nash equilibrium with their overinflated pricing. That sales volume curve drops fairly steeply once the inelastic unit price point is exceeded. They’re close.

The dealers are not helping with useless tack-on accessory profit-driven pricing models and ‘market adjustments’. The problem may be worse in SET, but it’s not limited to my local market or to a single dealer. Not all dealers do it but enough do thate they smear the rest. One dealer in an adjoining state tried to charge me for a 2nd key fob for a TRD ORP 4Runner.

Obviously Toyota’s scheme of trickling the supply slowly is markedly distorting the market. They’ve always constrained supply to drive residual value and maintain inflated new truck pricing.

In the end, Toyota’s reputation is shattered, from my perspective, and they’ve decided to cater to the relatively few ‘internet Toyota influencers’ who make a living out of mods on their trucks by getting freebies from the suppliers, installers and Toyota aftermarket producers.

A pretty sleazy situation for an old line Japanese company that had spent so much of its storied history defending ‘human dignity’ through Lean/TPS innovation and quality. This new approach, at least in the USA, belies all that rhetoric as BS and a devout commitment to profit over quality.

Toyota seems to have lost its way.

Akio Toyoda-Sama, would you consider that the time has come for you to intervene in the USA market to correct the questionable dealer/distributor practices and misguided marketing strategy that are dishonoring Toyota’s reputation? Given the Toyoda family’s commitments to its loyal brand customer base, your leadership action now, to allow your customer’s who work hard to continue to afford your truck products, is the honorable course.

I don't agree with all of this, but this is the type of longer-form diatribe that makes me get on the internet and join forums.

Well done sir.

 

[MomtyZooma]

The I have a ORP coming in at MRSP in Kansas City area.