Outrageous dealer prices currently

[Dead Horse]

Howdy folks - Sharing my first experience in hunting down an 2025 ORP...

Dealer had a specific allocation which hit all of the boxes. Show up, look at terms, consider a deposit, share ideal payment structure, then get their "first offer'...

Offer_1: With dealer mark-ups and 'market adjustments' added, $82K was their first offer out the door. Does not include the interest for the loan. Looking at $86-$88k all things considered. Immediately start considering what my GX550 could cost out the door. Very similar.

Quickly say no and push back. With a $12k down payment, perfect credit, trade-in sitting in my back pocket, and considering no more than a 60-mo finance term, they come back with a 12% APR offer. Not going to work. I bring up potentially coming out in cash (didn't say, but would get a credit union money loan at a better rate). Dealer said they would mark-up the vehicle 10% for cash offers.

Offer_2: Ok, we've got some adjustments here from the finance folk. How is a $1200 payment with the above terms? Still a no from me, say I won't pay over $800 a month max. I've run the numbers on my own and this is easily manageable/obtainable with the combination of my table items (e.g. down payment, credit, potential trade-in if necessary).

Offer_3: Sales folk sits with his finance team and, after a brief huddle, comes back with a new offer...This time, out the door we're looking at $76k out the door (not including interest across the life of the loan). So, all things considered, about $82k. Not going to happen for an ORP.

Decide to walk out and give up the allocation to somebody else. Dealer wouldn't budge on their 'dealer-added mark ups' of $3,500 to essentially tint the windows and apply a clear coat on the paint 3x. Mark-up to 'adjust' for market shortage was $5k and non-negotiable. 12% APR was best they could do with an excellent credit score + history. Dealer wouldn't consider even a maximum 105% MSRP negotiation which I would consider if they offered competitive financing 6-9%.

Dealer lost my business on this one. On to the next dealer in the area. Don't settle, folks. Good luck!

Name and shame that dealer lol

 

[tomter]

Absolutely sure. They were claiming it was because it’d be the first TRD Pro for a long time in Las Vegas. The funny part is that the week after, another dealership reached out with a $10K markup. I’ve decided to wait and see.

The protect package and PDI are junk fees. This is a HARD PASS. Don't anyone fall for this. They are getting you on these crap add-ons and markups. Just say NO.

 

[toyomoLC]

Agree. When buying new I find a Toyota dealer who’ll agree to let me order an allocated vehicle in the build out or ship phase so I can specify which distributor and/or port added fluff I don’t want added.
That’s how I bought my current Signia. After being told it wasn’t possible to do this by one of my local dealers, I sat down with a salesman yesterday that we recently bought a 5th Gen 4R from and went the list on their next allocated TRD ORP noon-hybrid iForce (my preference to avoid more complexity) and removed the items I didn’t want. A prior $5K dealer market adjustment was immediately removed. MSRP offered with a markedly reduced dealer ’documentation fee’.
Probably early signs that the crazy market may be starting to stabilize as the supplies start to stack up. BTW I saw 7 unsold LCs on 2 dealers’ lots yesterday. I believe they’re beyond the Nash equilibrium.

 

[tomter]

Agree. When buying new I find a Toyota dealer who’ll agree to let me order an allocated vehicle in the build out or ship phase so I can specify which distributor and/or port added fluff I don’t want added.
That’s how I bought my current Signia. After being told it wasn’t possible to do this by one of my local dealers, I sat down with a salesman yesterday that we recently bought a 5th Gen 4R from and went the list on their next allocated TRD ORP noon-hybrid iForce (my preference to avoid more complexity) and removed the items I didn’t want. A prior $5K dealer market adjustment was immediately removed. MSRP offered with a markedly reduced dealer ’documentation fee’.
Probably early signs that the crazy market may be starting to stabilize as the supplies start to stack up. BTW I saw 7 unsold LCs on 2 dealers’ lots yesterday. I believe they’re beyond the Nash equilibrium.

Wow. Nice job! You can't get what you don't ask for right? Yup, the Land Cruisers are having issues, esp. the 1958's. Selling close to $50k now. Make your price.

 

[4rsreed]

I got an MSPR deal on a 4Runner ORP Hybrid at Alexandria Toyota. Goes into production on 03/13 and arrives between 04/23 and 05/10. Probably on the later end being on the east coast. So excited. Stay strong. Don't let them suck you into an over MSRP deal. Soon they will be discounting them. Good luck in finding your perfect 4Runner.

 

[4R Platinum or Die Trying]

I wonder how much profit a dealership makes on a typical 6th gen MSRP sale. I know it's a lot. I understand that each 6th gen purchase is different. Different trim levels, different port installed options, different doc fees, different relationships with the dealer, etc.... I get that.

But let's do a 'middle of the road' example. Let's say you aren't getting the base SR5 ($41K) or the top level Pro or Trailhunter (almost $70K). I'll use a TRD Sport Premium or a TRD Off-Road Premium, non-hybrid, as an example. Their MSRP's are around $55K give or take some.

So, stay with me here. A TRD Off-Road Premium. Easy round numbers....55K MSRP, add doc fee, and the dreaded PIO's, add a few options that you want.....and your price is $60K. This isn't including a 'market adjustment' / dealer mark up. How much money from that 60K does the dealer clear? I know about looking up the 'invoice' price, but dealers also often get 'hold backs' and other incentives that don't show up on a price sheet. I don't know. I'm just spit-balling here. But I bet the dealer would clear over $6,000 on that deal. What's your thoughts? Am I too high or too low?

How much profit is a dealer getting on a typical MSRP sale?

 

[et2041]

I wonder how much profit a dealership makes on a typical 6th gen MSRP sale. I know it's a lot. I understand that each 6th gen purchase is different. Different trim levels, different port installed options, different doc fees, different relationships with the dealer, etc.... I get that.

But let's do a 'middle of the road' example. Let's say you aren't getting the base SR5 ($41K) or the top level Pro or Trailhunter (almost $70K). I'll use a TRD Sport Premium or a TRD Off-Road Premium, non-hybrid, as an example. Their MSRP's are around $55K give or take some.

So, stay with me here. A TRD Off-Road Premium. Easy round numbers....55K MSRP, add doc fee, and the dreaded PIO's, add a few options that you want.....and your price is $60K. This isn't including a 'market adjustment' / dealer mark up. How much money from that 60K does the dealer clear? I know about looking up the 'invoice' price, but dealers also often get 'hold backs' and other incentives that don't show up on a price sheet. I don't know. I'm just spit-balling here. But I bet the dealer would clear over $6,000 on that deal. What's your thoughts? Am I too high or too low?

How much profit is a dealer getting on a typical MSRP sale?

I know Invoice on a TRD Pro is just a bit north of 64K.

 

[4R Platinum or Die Trying]

I know Invoice on a TRD Pro is just a bit north of 64K.

Right. I don't have any facts to back it up, but I bet the dealer makes over $8,000 on a MSRP TRD Pro MSRP deal. I think it was @Nodak who showed us that dealer invoice is around 60K for a 65K MSRP Platinum.

 

[Nodak]

well i did a quick lookup on kbb, a bare bones trd pro with no added FIO/PIO and this is what invoice = 63k

 

[toyomoLC]

I’m always skeptical of published invoice data. Holdbacks and any volume and cash incentives affect actual dealer cost and profit margin.

 

[HVLA]

Gross profit is around $2k on a new vehicle. Most of their money is made in the back office and service department.

 

[rshally]

A dealer mistakenly showed me the invoice for a recently received TRD Sport Premium PT 4WD at $53, 250. MSRP with Moonroof and Tow Tech Package, and Wind Chill Pearl $57,785.

 

[toyomoLC]

Finally have honed in on 2 offers from area dealers for new 2025 6th Gen TRD ORP 4Rs, both on allocation in build stage. Neither is my preferred color but I could live with either, though at the asking prices I want to have all my choices.
We’ve bought Toyotas from both dealers before, both offers started with ‘market adjustment’ markups. One dropped it completely early on - “you’re our customer” blah blah - the other has offered to do so, we’ll see next week.

Both agreed to let me define which options I want and which planned ones come off the list. The inflated ‘document fees’ $700-$1000 may remain. They’re fairly stubborn about those IME.

I see the combination of significant Toyota USA corporate price increases and dealers’ attempts to “make hay while the sun shines,” as a deliberate strategy to turn the demographic page on 4Runner buyers. IMHO they’re trying to move away from historically brand-loyal older ‘baby boomer’ buyers - ‘we’ve got them hooked, they’ll keep buying short term’ - to younger buyers who value on-road flash and looks over capabilities.
In my case, whatever 4R we buy next will be our 11th Toyota or Lexus product in the last 30 years. However, I’ve decided I won’t spend the inflated 6th Gen prices and reward behavior I don’t support on Toyota Corp or its dealers’ part.
I’m now very close to a deal on 1 of 2 5th Gen 4Rs TRD ORPs in my area, a low mileage 2023 and same in a 2024. We’re close on bottomline OTD price, so we’ll see how it goes.
My final conclusion is that Toyota has priced me out of the 6th Gen 4R market and doesn’t care because they’ve made a different market segment choice. I can live with that though I don’t like it and it has left a sour taste in my mouth. I’m not an important guy or YouTube influencer, but each one of us has a circle of influence.
Both of my adult kids drive 5th Gen 4Rs, my wife drives a 3rd Gen Tacoma TRD ORP and I have a couple of Toys.
We’ve all been involved in the quest for my next 4R and it hasn’t sat well with any of us. My kids reflect Toyota’s new generation demographic. We’ll see how it turns out.